I calmly said "You're the ones telling me Jesus died for aliens and that you will be gods someday, I don't think I am brainwashed.". It's mean to associate /u/tripletrules with Piers Morgan. When I would come home after dealing with the Mormons, I would often say to my wife: “They just can’t think! Building Relationships of Trust (BRT) is the first and foremost thing you're taught to do. When Mormon women can’t have the sacrament This spring, I and several million other Latter-day Saint women have lost access to the sacrament, but it’s not because we have sinned. They are young adults in college. I was under the belief that it was a commandment from God through a prophet, and that disregarding commandments sent you to hell. Where does it say---" The blond cut me off immediately and said "Uhh haha the Bible isn't the only source of knowledge, there's lots of knowledge about God outside of the Bible." Your voice is missing! There's "Salvation" and there's "Exaltation". ", I replied, "But Jesus said His words would never perish from the earth" and the blond said "They didn't, they just weren't properly translated until Joseph Smith came along. I do not see anything appealing in becoming a god." I don't remember reincarnation, but one could earn one's way to a Jesus - like status where you get to be the Jesus of that planet. After Smith's death in … They said immediately "Yes! HAHAHA I'd rather go to Hell than have that! Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding. What, are you going to sit on a cloud all day and sing to Jesus? You will live again; however, you don't get Godhood without "Exaltation". "we'll be back in 2 weeks to see if you have.". Mormonism doesn't really have a concept of Hell anymore. I have had several come by my place, and I ask them how their mission is going and I repeatedly get stories from them of running into people like you. I'd much rather be a god. The blond said "Well we're with the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints, and we want to let you know what the Bible says." what if Sherlock Holmes was a medical doctor in the 21st century? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, apologetic institutions agree with those statements, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol.20, p.28 - p.29, July 7, 1878. How boring is that! Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system. One thing I found funny was when they were trying to show me how much they believed their doctrine. I still remember some of the discussions I had with well-educated people while a missionary over a decade ago. Keep in mind during this whole conversation I kept my voice soft, I was gracious, and I did not insult or try to demean. I say it with such a finality that they usually get the point and leave right … So you'll see him claiming some parts (that are going out) and not claiming some parts that are too old for him to remember. More cringe. It was mistranslated over and over again.". I don't think a reality check for over confident missionaries is necessarily a bad thing. This actually happens to them a lot. Do you mind walking me through the translation of "καί θεός ήν ό λόγος."? 10. Anything that is true belongs to the Mormon Church. Yes! Mormons are a religious and cultural group related to Mormonism, the principal branch of the Latter Day Saint movement started by Joseph Smith in upstate New York during the 1820s. WHAT? I answered the door and went outside to talk with them on my porch. He quickly said "The Bible makes tons of mistakes and contradicts itself all the time, like everywhere. Yes, my father has had conversations with missionaries who came to my house before. :). I tell them we disagree; however every time we leave with a handshake. It was taken out after his death, and called a heresy, but it shows a break in the authoritative claims. If it makes you feel any better, Mormonism originally started out as a trinitarian (or at least Modalistic) faith. I bet they said "but it doesn't say the word is God, it says the word is a god!". I was shocked, they actually admitted it. They start making a claim publicly while suggesting it's not all of the details internally. The problem with encounters like yours, is it just reinforces their beliefs. I don't want occult books in my house. Mormon missionaries often eat only at the homes of members or those who invite them over to teach. dang, yep, never happens to missionaries EVER...especially the ones that go to the southeastern missions here in Florida and have people wave machetes and shotguns in their face...if you think this in anyway was a threat to any well-versed missionary (unlike the ones mentioned) then you really don't know anything about their line of work, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the Christianity community. I've been spit on, urinated on (long story), yelled at, and physically threatened. Tanner tells one of the boys secrets, will it lead to the groups downfall? CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected. You're both arguing belief against belief without actually addressing each other's claims. ", "Like Him? We won." That wasn't what led me out, but it has stuck with me for the many years afterwards. So I said, okay, you are trying to brainwash me, is that better? Print out the first section of this and go through it point by point with them. I was a wicked sinner when God saved me, I'm thankful to still draw breath. The dark haired guy loudly laughed, and the blond yelled "WHAT? Hell has been turned into a state of mind or a temporary purgatory. Okay, that's not fair. If you try to talk about Jesus they won't come back. . I asked God to break any hex or spell with the blood of His Son Jesus Christ, and to remove all unclean spirits from this place that may have accompanied those missionaries. Finally they began laughing and mocking me, they said I was "brainwashed" and "an idiot" because "you only trust one book!" Nobody is going to come knocking at your door. I wouldn't call them Demons. The instruction manual emphasizes relationships over knowledge. My roommate answered the door last year when Mormon missionaries came to the door. I was in my room editing the footage I had taken while preaching at the Earth Day festival, when I heard the doorbell ring. I told them that the Bible doesn't make that distinction, and that it simply says "There is only one God." By revelation I have been selected as a personal representative of the Lord Jesus Christ. One thing many of us seem to forget: is many times Mormon missionaries are young men far from home. The blond said "Who knows? But seriously, what the heck are swaybars? Nephi expressed this message while interpreting his father’s vision of these latter days: “And at that day shall the remnant of our seed know that they are of the house of Israel, and that they are the covenant people of the Lord; and then shall they know and come to the knowledge of their forefathers, and also to the knowledge of the gospel of their Redeemer, which was ministered unto their fathers by him; wherefore, they shall come to the knowledge of their Redeemer and the … Fishing in Utah A Catholic in Utah once told me, "If you ever go fishing with a Mormon, make sure you bring two." They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change. You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world. I smiled and thanked him, and said "ok so you're with the Mormon church, right? I was never that pushy on my mission, but I can believe it happened. I had two Mormons come to my house last night, I was not happy as they disturbed my relaxing evening, I said no soliciting please, you are selling religion and I'm not interested. Of all the people's doors they could have knocked on, and they got YOU. I knocked many doors, had a lot of folks say "no." The blond repeated "Don't you know that science is worthless when talking about God?" I told him I have already researched enough and I won't read it, but he said "we'll be back in 2 weeks to see if you have." I explained to them that this is impossible Biblically because Christ only died once and He only died for the world, so that means if there is sentient life outside of Earth, there is no chance for them to be saved. That and only Mormons can get into the highest tier of heaven (and only good** Mormons can get into the top of that tier - where you become Gods just like God the Father). Another good one is where Brigham Young added the information that Adam was literally God the Father to the temple ceremony. You don't mean like God Almighty do you?" I have sent out over a couple thousand Books of Mormon … We argued back and forth for a long time, I was citing scripture after scripture and they weren't citing anything (not surprising though) and as the conversation progressed they became angrier and angrier. Finally after a few more minutes of useless banter (mostly insults from them) the dark haired guy said "ok well have a good night" and I said "you too my friend, take it easy.". As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Book of Mormon Doctrinal Mastery 2017. Anyway, based on Joseph's claim, only polygamists will receive exaltation and be a God. We won." We won. They pretty much broke every guideline in the book. Joseph Fielding Smith was an LDS prophet. THAT SUCKS! For my sake could you explain Koine-only for me? He wants you to have everything He has and to be like Him! I'm an agnostic, but I'm thinking about all my Mormon friends that were far away from home, years at a time, just trying to do their best and serve God as they know how. The blond quickly demanded of me "So what's Heaven going to be like for you if you're not going to become a god??" They were so pushy that in the end I had to tell them to leave my … . This Mormon … Though many readers are aware of the stunning examples of chiasmus in the Book of Mormon… It doesn't say "for us." If you have Christian friends who are being induced by Mormon neighbors, co-workers, or those Mormons they regard as friends, to meet the Mormon full-time missionaries, all you have to is get them to read the official declaration of Mormon … That's good. We spoke for what felt like an hour or two. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. No one's changing their minds in this situation, and I think if we can make anyone feel better about humans that don't necessarily share the same beliefs, then that's a great thing. Quotes such as these are what create missionaries like the ones that OP encountered. Being Mormon can sometimes feel overwhelming, but Mette Harrison has boiled it down into 73 simple steps. Eventually the people who remember the old doctrine have forgotten or died, and then it was never taught. But I also saw a few people out of the hundreds say "yes" and got to watch some … We are going to be like God someday. I was extremely polite. They got angry and said the Trinity was a false doctrine, and that conversation continued for a while until I said "well guys I don't think this conversation is going anywhere, it's getting dark so let's just agree to disagree and call it a tie." Thank you for sharing that. I certainly don't agree with their views, but the emotional strain they're subjected to is already rigorous enough without people making fun of them while entertaining their conversion attempts under false pretenses. Well hey I appreciate your input wooper. Sorry for the stern tone, but your post got a bit under my skin. They were being extremely disrespectful and insulting. “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it,” Romney said. The lead-man still attempted to push his doctrine to the forefront while the apprentice had the look of amazement cuz of the things I preached about the Sabbath. This is literally a worst case scenario. HILARIOUS, Triple! He is my master and He has chosen me to represent Him--to stand in His place, to say and do what He Himself would say and do if He personally were ministering to the very people to whom He has sent me. In other words, some of the Saints have said, and believe, that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and eternity, will receive an exaltation as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I'm honest about what I believe (agnostic-atheistish) but no way am I debating them. I often ran into people that were preachers or would love to argue, and, yeah, no one ever "wins.". It can be very difficult for picky … I said "I believe I will glorify God forever, worshiping and singing praises to Him, and simply get to know Him more and more forever. Thank you for posting this. Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share. You were one of my favorite kind people to run into during my mission :) More than anything, having total strangers give me water bottles and popsicles, or inviting us in to warm up (Chicago can be horribly cold), made it easier to transition into not being mormon anymore once I decided to leave my church, cause I knew I could still be a good person. Show them the evidence, hard irrefutable evidence, that their claims are false. I said "friend you certainly did not win but I am trying to be gracious." Good money, and the skills were transferable). He says they now actively avoid his house. You don't need to argue belief to disprove Mormonism. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. The Book of Mormon has 108 references to the house of Israel. He's right on both accounts. My authority is above that of kings of the earth. We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless! Missionaries now a days are 18-19 year old boys or 19-21 year old girls. If you really want to make a point, use quotes from prophets to make a point. I also disagree with their low opinions on the Bible and science. He might as well claim ownership on Disney, just because, but he's right that the corporation does make that claim. Keep in mind he was nearly shouting at this point...His personality had changed dramatically, and clearly he had demons that were manifesting. 2 And it came to pass that the Lord did say unto me: Cry unto this people—Repent ye, and come unto me, and be ye baptized, and build up again my … House had a group of 40 possible new assistants, which he has to cut down to 3. Hahaha nice bro. There’s absolutely no strings attached. They're preaching and not doing Bible study. All cults are the same way. Last night, on the TV show House, M.D. If your interested in entertaining their stuff they'll be back for more. It's like if I were going door-to-door as a representative of the NRA, and the door was answered by Piers Morgan! The problem with missionaries is that they are young, inexperienced and overly confident. You will not be on the ‘Mormon’ radar. https://www.comeuntochrist.org/site/free-book-of-mormon Simply type your address in and two missionaries will come to your house and read the scriptures with you and can walk you through this process of slowly allowing your … For my yoke is easy, and my … I said "Feel free to come back but I won't read it. Most of them would NEVER call an investigator an "idiot". It doesn't matter!" So I just had some Mormon missionaries come to my house, and we just finished talking about a half hour ago. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. Hopefully they get a lesson in humility. It's funny that you mention it because the techniques are the same. *** This is the pattern on how doctrine changes. Well let me ask you something. Mormon declares that the Book of Mormon … I shook their hands and asked them to give me "the basic summary of their message." He also lived in Utah for a while as a missionary there, so he knows all about the little-known and little … It's worse when you can't prove your own claims. But, I suppose as consolation prize, both sides always get some interesting stories! I could tell they were relieved that they found a friendly person and not a door slam. Mormon missionaries have come to my house recently and asked to have Bible studies. Doctrinal Mastery Scriptures for New Testament 2016. We've discussed this in /r/exmormon, and even the NYTimes has picked up on the natural transition from LDS missionary to salesmen. At the beginning of the Book of Mormon, Nephi taught, “For the fulness of mine intent is that I may persuade men to come unto the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and be saved.” … It wasn't until the 2nd or 3rd iteration of the "first vision" that the religion moved on from that idea. I used to be a mormon and a missionary, and it was due to encounters such as this that I started having doubts about my faith. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. I'd much rather be a god. Should OP have just let it go? The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the will of God, is a fulfillment of the celestial law of marriage in part--and is good so far as it goes--and so far as a man abides these conditions of the law, he will receive his reward therefore, and this reward, or blessing, he could not obtain on any other grounds or conditions. The blond said "We really believe this, I mean we don't get paid to do this. I lol'd internally and said "Yes I realize that, I know you guys don't take money for this. At one point you had to consecrate everything you owned to the church, at another you had to be a polygamist (at least in your heart), and in the early 1900s you had to avoid all alcohol (although beer is still allowed in canon). My Commission is to do what He wants done; To say what He wants said; to be a living modern witness in word and in deed of the divinity of his great and marvelous Latter-day work. I started again "Scientifically speaking, genetic tests have proven that Native Americans are not descended from the Hebrews, which means the book of Mormon is false." I don’t know, they keep coming to my house and they aren’t changing anything. If you want to make an impact, argue fact against belief. They said something like based on your performance, one gets sent to one of three planets (good, not-so good, & ugly bad). How boring is that! It felt like they were selling me a car. I told them how "all of creation groans in anticipation for the coming of Jesus Christ" which means that all creation suffers under the curse of sin that Adam caused, but they weren't having it. He is what I want when I die." Show them that their own apologetic institutions agree with those statements. I said "Science is not worthless, it is a great thing. Therefore, whoever has imagined that he could obtain the fullness of the blessings pertaining to this celestial law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions, has deceived himself. See Polygamy, years of temple changes, years of racism, and now we're in the transition for Godhood and Women's rights in conjunction with the definition of Priesthood. They replied "Yeah there's only one God for us, but when we become gods our creation will only have one god too." You’re totally safe, my friend. We do this because we want to." Thanks for the kind words. Mormon Missionaries Came to My House So I just had some Mormon missionaries come to my house, and we just finished talking about a half hour ago. I want here to enter my solemn protest against this idea, for I know it is false. I said "but you told me I was going to the Terrestrial Kingdom, so I'm not actually throwing myself into a pit. That may sound strange, but when you grow up being told you can only be truly happy/good/successful etc if you follow the church's doctrines, it's actually hard to comprehend. If they reject this prophet, then they have rejected their own patriarchal line and have admitted to having no priesthood or there was no need for a restoration. Practice Happiness Now. Let's say I'm a Bible-believing Christian and I trust Jesus Christ alone for my salvation, am I going to Heaven? It was mistranslated over and over again. The problem with encounters like yours, is it just reinforces their beliefs. I asked them again "Wait let me get this straight, you and your friend are going to become GODS someday?" Mormon 7:1 if it so be that God may give unto them my words, that they may know of the things of their fathers. I smiled and said "Hi guys, my name's Derek." ... Last fall, as I pondered our family approach to Come Follow Me, I made a choice to keep our studies extremely simple. (Keep in mind they're talking to a street preacher who's been assaulted and attacked for preaching the Gospel on multiple occassions.) I learned that if they use the article, supply the word, "the", but if the article wasn't there, it's generally indefinite. What a wonderful thing for the descendants of Lehi to read such a book! They got angrier and angrier as time went on, refusing to quote any scriptures. He said "you have to read this book and search for that feeling that comes from it, and when you feel it, you'll know I was right." In fact my friend, you are the one who is in danger of hellfire." We will be gods." And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house … I winced a little at that, mostly from personal experience. Plus these are the worst set of missionaries I've ever heard of. ). We spoke for what felt like an hour or two. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. Rarely you will find someone of them honest enough to discuss anything. You do not believe on my Master Jesus Christ, you believe Jesus Christ is a created being and you reject the Trinity." The blond laughed loudly and said "Uh no, this is not a tie. If your interested in entertaining their stuff they'll be back for more. Eternal. Without the restored gospel and the Book of Mormon, one may come to regard the Bible, because of its deficiencies, as simply confusing and difficult to understand. ** The definition of "Good" has changed as well. How is that going to change your perception of Evangelical Christianity? * I say usually because it conflicts with the original Book of Mormon, which was mostly a combination of Methodism, Calvinism, and a few hotly debated topics in the early 1800s. I said "Come on friend I'm trying to be gracious here, let's just call it a tie and---" but he cut off and said "The mormon church claims all truth as its own, we own it. I love 'em! Abstract: Robert Smith makes the case that “poetic art in the Book of Mormon is highly developed” — you just need to have the eye to recognize it. Now here's where they're wrong. It's changed over the last few centuries and some concepts are outdated. My voice is His voice, and my acts are His acts; my doctrine is His doctrine. They're also taught to side-step concerns and keep drilling to the commitment. If you don't respond to this pattern, then you're not the person they're looking for. They weren't having any of it. How great is my calling! Reading john 1:1 in the Greek, I see it says, "ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.". I think of they actually studied them, they would be better able to explain our beliefs. When they left I prayed asking God to have mercy on them and to cause them to repent of their sins before they die. But this is only the beginning of the law, not the whole of it. Armed with a knowledge of the principles … They guffawed, and said "Uhh, like everything! I'm typing this right after it happened so I'll remember as much as possible. While I think that there may be some truth to this, my experience was different. ), a Mormon character appeared. Hopefully they took root. He couldn't really find anything to say so he just said I was being ridiculous and laughed loudly. ", Anyway towards the end of the conversation, the blond said "Look, I want you to have this book" and he held out a Book of Mormon. My best friend knows someone who was given that question by JWs, he went and got a Greek NT and asked them to point out where it says what they were claiming. I finally responded "I am content to breathe God's air. If he, according to traditon, merely translated it from certain ancient and myteriously engraved plates of copper, which he declares he found under a stone, in an out of the way locality, the work of translating it was equally a miracle for the same reason. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle. Keeping awake while he did it, was at any rate. There is no blessing promised except upon conditions, and no blessing can be obtained by mankind except by faithful compliance with the conditions, or law, upon which the same is promised. July 31, 2016. Finally however he admitted that yes, I would go to the "Terrestrial Kingdom" but I would not receive "all that God has for me." You are trusting your own good works and faith to elevate you to godhood. If that's too long, then use this. I asked him "So you're telling me the Bible is not trustworthy at all?" But I'm unsure why this is a jumping off point, thanks. Keep in mind he was nearly shouting at this point...His personality had changed dramatically, and clearly he had demons that were manifesting. I said "Not the Jesus of the Bible. So thanks for being kind :). Come to find out, it's two Mormon missionaries. You may have gotten pushy missionaries who "started it", but I would reconsider your approach for the next encounter. Can I offer some constructive criticism? My Servant Joseph | Animated Come Follow Me Lesson for Kids This is Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. Jesus is my portion and my prize, I don't need anything from Him because I'm content with what He has already given me. I may be a Creationist but I don't think science is worthless or crap." Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony (Hidden Camera by NewNameNoah) - YouTube, http://www.novus2.com/alphamin/LETTERS/MAINPAGE.htm, http://www.christianforums.com/t7817331/#post65427247, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. At the time, I found people who were well versed in the Bible very annoying since I didn't know nearly as much as they did. The mormon church claims all truth as its own, we own it. "Salvation" is (usually*) taught to be a free gift. Printables, Seminary. At this point everything I said was interrupted 3 or 4 times, and I had to repeat myself over and over again until the blond would let me speak. Mormon missionaries have come to my house recently and asked to have Bible studies. There are more changes, but I won't bore you with them. July 29, 2017. (i.e. We were often given quotes such as this to boost our confidence: I am called of God. I'm studying attic Greek for my minor, but am not super familiar with koine. You don't have to be perfect, but you should be prepared. He said "You said whoever believes on Jesus will be saved and I believe on Jesus!" Why would someone want to convert to a religion where everyone they meet is more concerned with telling them how wrong they are, than offering them a glass of water or soda? Hey turret! I asked them "if I'm going to heaven what motive do I have to become a Mormon?" He quickly said "The Bible makes tons of mistakes and contradicts itself all the time, like everywhere. ", Keep in mind the whole time both of them are smiling like cheshire cats, completely confident that they are right. All are welcome to participate. The topic turned to aliens and they told me that they believe there are humans on other planets whom Christ also died for. I thought I had an invisible gun to my … here is what I tell people when they come to my door asking me to attend their church or attend their bible study. The fact remains that there are legitimate, provable, smoking guns with the claims surrounding this book (and other canonized works). I'm almost tempted to return to Mormonism so I could repeat the events. Next comes commitments (such as baptism) leveraging those relationships before you get to the gritty details. Call them or the "ward clerk" … I told him I did not want it, but he insisted "I won't take it back, it's yours now" so I took it. Answer: When Mormon missionaries (properly called Latter Day Saints or simply "LDS") come to your door, they will often offer a free copy of the Book of Mormon and tell you about its author, Joseph Smith. HAHAHA I'd rather go to Hell than have that! Both immediately said "Yes!" And behold, I had employed my people, the Nephites, in preparing their lands and their arms against the time of battle.

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